Curse

Zabe · Nov 24, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

rits are just waiting to be nerfed. there is not one thing you can do with an ele you can't do better with a mesmer now. 4 classes.

It can bee seen like in RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing china that you havent logged on the game for last 2 years. Or since when did Me/E/Mo character exist? So stfu please.

wuzzman · Nov 25, 2008, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

It can bee seen like in RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing china that you havent logged on the game for last 2 years. Or since when did Me/E/Mo character exist? So stfu please.

can you spell monk runner you ignorant ass wipe. have fun with stale wars

.

Ec]-[oMaN · Nov 25, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Beating the dead horse here. Some may call it "Stale Wars" as of late but it's still rock/paper/scissors just like in the past. So what paras/eles/sins/dervs/necros have shifted out of the meta. Go back a few months and warriors weren't used, dervs+sins+paras were.

Forgotton200 · Nov 25, 2008, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Beating the dead horse here. Some may call it "Stale Wars" as of late but it's still rock/paper/scissors just like in the past. So what paras/eles/sins/dervs/necros have shifted out of the meta. Go back a few months and warriors weren't used, dervs+sins+paras were.

So Elementalist never excel at anything since they weren't used often in the past and even now. Did the developers give up on this class? Or this game in general? One week of GvG observation in the top guilds and every fight is the same. Same 4 classes and all other are barely or never seen.

urania · Nov 25, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

well, they can..spike!

Zabe · Nov 25, 2008, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Or split when needed?

I Angra I · Nov 25, 2008, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Warriors and monks have always been around in balanced gvg builds since the beginning. They're the best source of offense and defense the game has to offer.

Paragons aren't used because 123 pewpew rangers do way more damage for a midline spot.

Dervishes aren't used because dervspike was nerfed and VoD doesn't exist anymore.

Eles aren't used because mesmers can do their job better (which is retarded). Though you do see eles in split builds still.

Necros aren't used because the majority of their skills are really weird and only useful for gimmick stuff.

Assassins aren't used because they were nerfed hard, and for good reason.

Ec]-[oMaN · Nov 25, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotton200

So Elementalist never excel at anything since they weren't used often in the past and even now. Did the developers give up on this class? Or this game in general? One week of GvG observation in the top guilds and every fight is the same. Same 4 classes and all other are barely or never seen.

There was a time when at least 2x primary elementalists were used all the time. Going back a year around summer of 07 Shield of Regen water ele's ran the flag, and B Surge served as the other midline. Before then Ether Prodigy runners were used with heal party, extinguish, b flash and the likes, and midline Ether prod hybrids also with some water snares and b flash.

The game has always gone through these cycles/metas because of nerfs and buffs where certain classes just got the job done better than others.

wuzzman · Nov 25, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

There was a time when at least 2x primary elementalists were used all the time. Going back a year around summer of 07 Shield of Regen water ele's ran the flag, and B Surge served as the other midline. Before then Ether Prodigy runners were used with heal party, extinguish, b flash and the likes, and midline Ether prod hybrids also with some water snares and b flash.

The game has always gone through these cycles/metas because of nerfs and buffs where certain classes just got the job done better than others.

that is a cute explanation but some old bullsh*t for people who know this game is stale and extremely one dimensional. People ran meta in the old days, but NON-meta was the reason why most people stayed. You had options, options you don't have now, people ran meta because it was easy and proven, not because it was the only way to win a match. This game is a shell of it's former self as far as where it really counted. Where regardless of your skill level you can spend hours coming up with ways to deal with problems without even running to the "bring a hard counter" button. People put thought and energy into build creation and the strategies these builds allowed them to do, and people really did think this game had limitless possibilities. So it was ok not to run meta regardless if your top tier player or low level unrated (amazingly i'm still talking about GvG), because meta isn't what won you the game at the end of the day. This game was about your brain power being used before and during the match and how you really never know what your opponent is running or how you well you can fight against it. That was Guild Wars, at least that was the game i paid for and most people who aren't touching gvg or HA for that matter paid for too. This 4 classes bullsh*t is not a product of "lol metashift", its simple what this game become.

valence · Nov 25, 2008, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

that is a cute explanation but some old bullsh*t for people who know this game is stale and extremely one dimensional. People ran meta in the old days, but NON-meta was the reason why most people stayed. You had options, options you don't have now, people ran meta because it was easy and proven, not because it was the only way to win a match. This game is a shell of it's former self as far as where it really counted. Where regardless of your skill level you can spend hours coming up with ways to deal with problems without even running to the "bring a hard counter" button. People put thought and energy into build creation and the strategies these builds allowed them to do, and people really did think this game had limitless possibilities. So it was ok not to run meta regardless if your top tier player or low level unrated (amazingly i'm still talking about GvG), because meta isn't what won you the game at the end of the day. This game was about your brain power being used before and during the match and how you really never know what your opponent is running or how you well you can fight against it. That was Guild Wars, at least that was the game i paid for and most people who aren't touching gvg or HA for that matter paid for too. This 4 classes bullsh*t is not a product of "lol metashift", its simple what this game become.

in short he is trying to say: people had no clue how to play the game and that made it fun.

wuzzman · Nov 25, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by valence

in short he is trying to say: people had no clue how to play the game and that made it fun.

if people now know how to play the game then you may actually have a point. but your arguments seems to fall apart from there.

moriz · Nov 25, 2008, 09:54 PM // 21:54

you are the perfect example.

ZING!

Forgotton200 · Nov 26, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

So the solution for the people like me who wanted to achieve high guild ranks one day with the other classes will be:

Give up on top GvG and join a low ranked guild who takes anyone and wait till those classes gets buffed one day

or

Join AB

I never done AB before so I'll have to search it up since I got no idea what it is. From the looks of it, any class regardless of any guild you're in can join in for either luxon or kurzick.

Yue · Nov 26, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

if people now know how to play the game then you may actually have a point. but your arguments seems to fall apart from there.

Who R U?
`````````

I Angra I · Nov 26, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotton200

So the solution for the people like me who wanted to achieve high guild ranks one day with the other classes will be:

Give up on top GvG and join a low ranked guild who takes anyone and wait till those classes gets buffed one day

or

Join AB

I never done AB before so I'll have to search it up since I got no idea what it is. From the looks of it, any class regardless of any guild you're in can join in for either luxon or kurzick.

Honestly any top gvg player is willing and able to play a lot of different classes depending on what is needed at the time for the meta and for the builds that they decide to run. It's a lot more about just the actual playing of it that makes gvg fun, rather than limiting yourself to one class because you like it the most. There's some builds that you could come up with or use that still have dervishes in them, but they would still be very limiting and only useful in specific situations on specific maps and stuff like that.

Forgotton200 · Nov 26, 2008, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

Honestly any top gvg player is willing and able to play a lot of different classes depending on what is needed at the time for the meta and for the builds that they decide to run. It's a lot more about just the actual playing of it that makes gvg fun, rather than limiting yourself to one class because you like it the most. There's some builds that you could come up with or use that still have dervishes in them, but they would still be very limiting and only useful in specific situations on specific maps and stuff like that.

What are those specific situations on a specific maps?

X Cytherea X · Nov 26, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

.......People ran meta in the old days, but NON-meta was the reason why most people stayed........This game is a shell of it's former self as far as where it really counted........People put thought and energy into build creation and the strategies these builds allowed them to do, and people really did think this game had limitless possibilities..........That was Guild Wars, at least that was the game i paid for and most people who aren't touching gvg or HA for that matter paid for too.......

listen to this man.

Quote:

Join AB

this.

Alleji · Nov 26, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotton200

Join AB

Winnar.

Seriously.

GvG may have "competition" and trims and e-peen, but the only fun thing remaining in this game is AB because in GvG you do the same stuff over and over and over again and every game on the other side you see 8 out of the ~12 available templates every game.

In AB you can take whatever you like and use it to kill noobies running random. Once in a while you'll run into a monk that doesn't use skills on recharge and fakes out your interrupts and you'll be like... woah... skillz.

Forgotton200 · Nov 30, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

mitch is right on regarding dervishes. with VoD gone, auto-AoE is no longer useful. the only real reason why people ran dervishes before during the VoD-era was because their massive sundering-crit uberleet AoE attacks, combined with VoD damage boost, caused npcs to explode. without VoD and npcs being non-factors, all dervishes have going for them are their huge damage hits, which are more or less outweighed by a warrior's versatility.

assassins fell in the same predicament. they were only used before to take out opposing npcs before VoD hit. now with no VoD, npcs are a lot less valuable and assassins became useless. they still retain their huge spike potential, but those spikes can be completely negated by a single spirit bond. as a general rule, the effectiveness of an assassin is inversely proportional to the number of players involved in a battle. assassins excel in small skirmishes with less available defense. in an 8v8 fight, they simply cannot compete with the warrior.

lastly, paragons also suffered from the lack of VoD. one of their key functions were to maintain partywide defenses through their shouts and chants at VoD, so their team and NPCs (at least npcs initially, since most shouts and chants no longer affect npcs now) can stand up better. outside of that, their role were to add layer upon layers of defense so their team can survive till VoD. with VoD gone, they can no longer compete with water mesmers in team defense, and cannot compete with ED rangers (or whatever their current incarnation is) in spike assistance.

guild wars, and GvG especially, are built upon a "melee-oriented" team concept. warriors are the centerpiece of all GvG teams, with the midline either helping the warriors kill, or preventing the opposing warriors from killing. the backline keeps everyone alive (especially the warriors) so they can score kills and perform their functions. each member of the team has specific functions that they need to fulfill for the team to work. in other words, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, each part cannot live without the other parts supporting.

the only times when non-standard professions (which, unsurprisingly enough, encompassses all the expansion professions) break into such a concept is when they can provide certain functions better than the standard professions, or they can provide a very specific function so well that it becomes game-ending.

I just re-read this and can't believe I missed this quote. Basically, VoD made classes like dervish, assassin, paragons, etc. extinct in GvG. No reason to buy nightfall campaign then if there's certain classes in nightfall that can't join the good GvG guilds in a game called Guild wars. I tried to apply in a guild that isn't the top guild and low ranked as well but they said I need to start up a warrior with a "warrior's endurance" or monks, mesmers.

I don't understand how a warrior who has high defense with utility can out-dps(with warrior's endurance spamming skills) a dervish who's only good at dealing damage. About the part that can hit AoE with scythe, I didn't see hardly any opportunity where people are stuck together to make it useful in the GvG observation. Most of them are just running all over the place. Also, a mesmer/ele being able to replace the whole elementalist class as a whole.

Is there any hope VoD would be back?

moriz · Nov 30, 2008, 12:40 AM // 00:40

pretty much none.

btw, you're taking the wrong approach here.

instead of thinking "i am a dervish", or "i am a paragon", or "i am an assassin", change that to "i PLAY frontline characters", or "i PLAY midline characters", or whatever. that way, you'll far more adaptable. no guild out there will look specifically for a dervish; they'll look for someone who can play frontline. you need to let go of this "roleplaying" mindset. you are not a character looking for a place in a team. instead, you are a player who can play a certain role for a team. there's actually a pretty big difference between the two.

and btw, warriors are the undisputed kings of melee. their very good DPS, combined with naturally good defense and excellent disruption places them heads and shoulders above dervishes and assassins. those two are only better than warriors in very specific situations. the warrior's endurance build allowed warriors to spam their energy based attacks, which WERE considered bad before because warriors could not run them due to their poor energy. with warrior's endurance pumping them energy constantly, they can now spam them for some pretty sickening damage. for example, power attack does the same damage as executioner's strike, except you can now use power attack every 3 seconds constantly, while you can't do that with executioner's strike. effectively, a WE warrior has the best of both words: spamable high-damage energy attacks like a dervish, while still having all the goodies of a warrior (3 KD, high damage bull's strike, free secondary, etc).